S04 E10: Talking equity compensation with Dexter Tang, International Equity Compliance and Operations Lead at Google

Special guest Dexter Tang, International Equity Compliance and Operations Lead at Google joins host Chris Dohrmann on our Prosperity at Work podcast to discuss insights from his career leading employee equity programs.

From his origins in the world of tax and accounting to managing international compliance and operations for one of the world’s largest companies, Dexter addresses a range of interesting topics including:

• The importance of having a global mindset
• How being a tough customer can help people to better serve their own customers
• Why being curious and excited about tax and compliance is important
• Dealing with emerging trends
• Leveraging AI and automation to create efficiencies

This publication contains general information only and J.P. Morgan Workplace Solutions is not, through this article, issuing any advice, be it legal, financial, tax-related, business-related, professional or other. J.P. Morgan Workplace Solutions’ Insights is not a substitute for professional advice and should not be used as such. J.P. Morgan Workplace Solutions does not assume any liability for reliance on the information provided herein. 

 The information provided in this podcast is intended for informational and educational purposes only; it is not intended as an offer for any specific product or service. Google is not affiliated with JPMorgan Chase & Co. The podcast contains the views of a J.P. Morgan employee, which may differ from the views of J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., its affiliates and employees. The views and strategies described may not be appropriate for everyone.  Certain information was obtained from sources we believe are reliable, but we cannot verify the accuracy of the content and we accept no responsibility for any direct or consequential losses arising from its use. You should carefully consider your needs and objectives before making any decisions. For specific guidance on how this information should be applied to your situation, you should consult a qualified professional.

This podcast contains general information only and J.P. Morgan Workplace Solutions is not, through this article, issuing any advice, be it legal, financial, tax-related, business-related, professional or other. This podcast is not a substitute for professional advice and should not be used as such. J.P. Morgan Workplace Solutions does not assume any liability for reliance on the information provided herein.

Transcript

Chris Dohrmann  00:00

Chris, you're listening to prosperity at work. From JP Morgan, workplace solutions, the podcast all about equity compensation, financial, well being and more. I'm your host. Chris Dorman, in this special episode, we have Dexter Tang, global equity manager at Google. Dexter. Welcome to the thanks for having me. It's great to have you, and I really appreciate it. So tell us a little bit about your background and how you started.

 Dexter Tang  00:27

No one actually graduates and say, I'm going to be an equity professional. When I graduated, I never thought I would end up doing what I do today. So I started my journey in the world of accounting. I always love numbers, so numbers is my thing. And when I graduated, I started my career in in the area of tax. I picked tax as opposed to audit, which is another common route for accounting graduates. They're both very boring, but I picked a less boring one, which is tax. So I started my career in the whole world of global mobility. So I was in one of the big accounting firms. So I was in PwC. I'm from Malaysia, so I started my career there, and then I started off for about three and a half years, and then I moved over to Australia. So I decided to migrate. I moved my life and moved with PwC, and I started to work with PwC in Australia. And then whilst I was in Australia, Google became one of my clients. So I manage all the Global Mobility Program and all their employees. So Google became one of my key clients at that time. And fast forward, four years later, Google came knocking on my door with this amazing opportunity to be in part of the equity team. So equity has always been a subset of what I do in global mobility. So when you do global mobility tax, you always need to know a little bit of equity. But now shifting to mainly doing equity programs is definitely one of my biggest career transition, not only from a career perspective. After that, I had to relocate to Dublin in Ireland. So I moved from Australia to Ireland, and I've been at Google, and I've been in Ireland for since 2019 so by next year will be my seventh year. So it's been, it's been a journey. Congrats.

 Chris Dohrmann  02:22

So let's, let's bring this right up to date. For those who don't know you, tell us a little bit about what your current role at Google encompasses.

Dexter Tang  02:31

I have fun. That's what I do. Nah. But seriously, you know what I do is, firstly, I manage the international compliance and operations for equity program. That's about more than 62 countries globally, and also 40% of our global population. So 60% is still in the US, but 40% so scattered all over the world. So that's the first area that I take care of. The second area I take care of is related to, that is education on all these key markets. So we need to make sure, like all our participants and our employees, they are educated on their equity plans, what they mean to them, what is what is it in for them, and also all the taxation implications from having all this equity. So that's the another exciting thing that I always do, which is education. I'm also leading all the global Help Desk and experience efforts. So whenever employees have queries, I have an awesome team that helps me manage all the queries. So that's one of my other big projects that I worked on six years ago when I first started. So in 2020 we built a team to help us manage all employee queries, so that something is kind of like my baby. Until today, I still lead it from a strategic point of view. And then another thing that I do is also manage vendors, so we manage all our stock administration, our brokers. Then finally, of course, you know, as part of Google, we continue to expand. So I'm also responsible for all any new country enablement. When we set up a new equity program in a new country,

Chris Dohrmann  04:09

I feel like a kindred spirit, because I had run a help desk as well something like 20 years ago, but I'm sure it was not near the volume that you're handling.

Dexter Tang  04:18

Well. I always say volume is one thing, but I think when it comes to a help desk perspective, I always use my experience in creating this because I always feel like I'm a very tough customer to please people know that people who are my vendors will know that, because I always expect really high standards of delivery and deliverables and service. So that's how I train my team, is to always remember that you know that kind of thing, and then, more importantly, as well, when it comes to creating a team like that, you want to always remind them they are not just robots following steps and do this, answer this, but really helping these people appreciate what they do and find. Meaning in their job, and I find that that's always one way to build a team like that, because when they find meaning in their job, they want to serve their customers.

Chris Dohrmann  05:09

It may sound those if we're in the same room, but I'm in New York and you're in Europe, so in two of the probably most regulated areas in the world, compliance must be a huge part of your work, and that's understandable given the sheer scale at Google and the number of employees all around the world. Tell us something you've learned about compliance on within your role.

Dexter Tang  05:31

Now, I think, as a tax person myself, I'm genuinely interested in compliance. I think that's the first thing that I feel that I've learned about myself and why I thrive in this particular area of compliance, because I'm genuinely curious with the requirements. And if there's a new requirement, I'm always curious about what is it all about? Going through the details, and I partner with our tax partners and vendors to help us with this. So I think curiosity and interest, genuine interest, in taxation and compliance, is, firstly, you need to have that. And then secondly is, you know, when I mentioned tax, tax partners or vendors, you need to have someone that's reliable, that you can partner with effectively, that you can trust that knows what you want, that knows what kind of standards or the way that you want them to advise you on. So that's the other thing that I've learned, and then to help you to succeed in the area of compliance, I feel that you also need to have a genuine intent in really wanting to know these things. That's where it ties back to the curiosity. If you just got to work in this role and just going through without really having the right, genuine intention to really be curious about area compliance, this is a very dry topic to go through, so I don't think you you know, you'll enjoy this role. So what I've learned is that if you're excited, as much as I dislike to admit that I get excited about taxes and compliance, but it is something that I truly find joy and passionate about, and I think that's what helped me. And then the final thing I would say that I've learned in area of compliance is, while you have reliable tax partners and vendors, I will never take what they say at face value. I always question. I always dig deeper, because, again, I'm genuinely curious. But also I'm not just, you know, relying on what they say. I challenge them sometimes, in fact, so you know, if that's one thing that I feel that you need to to also do because you know your company the best. You know your programs the best, whilst your your your vendors will advise you from their perspective. But again, you know your program and how it impacts your program the most, and you need to sometimes challenge and not take everything at face value. I think another that's another key learnings.

Chris Dohrmann  08:02

May I just shift gears just a bit and ask if you've seen any emerging trends in the area of compliance? You know what's keeping you up at night? You know worrying about what's coming down the road.

Dexter Tang  08:14

The joy self compliance is that it changes all the time. And then when you're managing an equity program over more than 62 countries, you always have to be prepared for a change. Sometimes the change can be sudden. Means you have to pivot very quickly, or you and you know the change is coming, and then you got to strategize, and depending on how critical those changes are, I think how would you then partner with your local leaders, local HR that you know, to kind of explain the implications that may impact our local employees in the particular jurisdiction? And I think that that's what keeps me up at night is really the speed of change that comes every single year. And again, when you work in so many countries, the changes can come any time of the year, and to a point where sometimes you are late in the game, where you actually the change has been implemented, and you only find out later. So it's things like that, things the speed of change across the world is one of the things that you know keeps me awake. Some of the things I think, is also as your equity programs and your company grows, your reporting gets more and more complex, your program gets more complex. But you don't get the privilege of growing your team all the time, how do you leverage automation and AI to keep helping you to scale because you need efficiencies, and I'm glad to be in a company that really is in the forefront of the AI revolution. So we are quite lucky with that, but we also need to make sure we utilize all those tools and to. To be more efficient, because when your programs get more and more complex, volume gets heavier, your compliance requirements still need to be met, and also the accuracy and completeness of your reporting needs to be at your top game, and especially in a big company like Google, you're constantly on kind of like the radar. So how do you make sure your reporting is absolutely clear, accurate, complete? It's always again, on top of my mind all the time. How do we keep getting better whilst also being really efficient with it? So you need to validate. You need to make sure they're all right, and then find the fastest way to do it. So I think that's another key one that keeps me up at night.

Chris Dohrmann  10:45

I'm glad you mentioned that, because I heard somebody the other day refer to AI as something that helps eliminate the no joy work. And I found that fascinating, because you're also based part of your role also focuses on operations, which is all about efficiency and keeping people focused on their objectives. So how did, what does that look like in your role?

Dexter Tang  11:08

So a key a few examples of what, what my team does from an operations point of view is, you know, we obviously do our monthly grants, which is very common for equity programs. We got to validate vesting schedules and making sure like all of them is correct when we load them into the our administer administrators website. You know, payroll delivery is key to our day to day as well. Like every month, when we have vesting events in some countries, we need to report them through payroll So, and it's huge, large, large, large volume of transactions across, again, many, many, many jurisdictions. How do you then work on that? So we work on all those operations as well. So with these two alone, you know, delivering it is one thing. I think, improving it constantly is one of my continuous improvement is always on my mind. And again, with AI and automation, I know these two words always comes a lot these days when you talk to any, anyone really, not just in this industry, but in particular for this industry, I feel like it's still very underutilized, if you ask me, and I myself, am trying to educate myself more and more. And again, I am lucky to be part of a company that champions this. But also we are given a lot of tools at work that we built in house, and I think I'm trying to leverage them more and more on how I can improve all these operations again, to scale, to anticipate as your company grows, your comp your progress gets more complex. How do you use AIs? I always call it as my sidekick, you know. So so I always look at AI as some another thing that I can train to help me in my day to day role, and certainly a few things that I've done so far that is really amazing, that I can't believe we're living this day and age that can do that.

Chris Dohrmann  13:10

I also saw a data point that says only 9.3% of US companies are using AI. And I think that's rapid compared to when it actually came along. Because, I mean, even talking about things like the iPhone, or talking about things like even, you know, the laptop, where, you know, people have now been able to do that all over, I think the 9.3% adoption of AI, I think, is great, because it shows that people are looking forward to it. What I think we, you know, the objective that you know your your operations, and using the efficiencies of AI as your sidekick, and much I want to just shift into what's your approach to measuring the effectiveness of your equity plans, you know, the ROI, because I, you know, I think some of the tools we talked about are there to actually give you some more data points.

Dexter Tang  14:03

Yeah, I feel like, when it comes to a broad based plan in a lot of different tech companies, ROIs is very difficult to measure. You know, unlike programs like, let's say, if you have an espp, for example, that's how you measure with the participation rate. But when everyone gets equity in a company, how do you measure the you know, really measure it? For me, I think the easiest and most obvious one is retention. How much you know your employees will stay for it, and if you give a retention grant, for example, will it work? I think that's the kind of measurement I would I would think for a broad based plan like that at the same time, another possible way of measuring ROI is, you know, really leveraging data analytics to really see the behavior of your participants. Are they holding to their stock? Stocks? Are they selling their stocks? How long are they holding? And all these things can also help really measure how much people appreciate those stocks. Another extreme, one I always joke about is take it away and you'll see if they like it or not. So there's another way to measure ROI.

Chris Dohrmann  15:18

Though you're an expert on technical matters, you know, just It's evident that you're personally, very people focused. So you've said people's stories drive advocacy for others. Have you used that in your role? Give us your favorite example of that.

Dexter Tang  15:32

I think, over the years, what I've learned is that everyone has a different way of doing things and the way they they live. What may be right to you may not be right to me, because we have a different upbringing, different background, different culture that we grew up in, and that always helps me to appreciate those differences, you know. And I think coming from, you know, from a Asian background, and I've lived in many countries that, not necessarily that I feel belong sometimes, and I have to fit in in a way. I think that's what drives me to advocate for all those of more of an inclusion perspective and and, and really understanding people's background and why they are who they are, you know, and how I use this in what I do at work is through, you know, just a simple example on on dealing with my participants, because at the end of the day, when we are operating an equity program, your participants or your employees are your customers. So the way I think about it, how do I want to understand my customers? Is, I want to know, you know, if they're escalating or something, or complaining about something, or they're asking for something. Different countries that I look at have different needs, and also it helps me understand, why are they thinking this way, or why is this an issue for them, but it's not an issue in another country. So those are what I call different stories of different people, because everyone in different country has different way of being brought up in their culture. So that's one way I look into it, and it helps me appreciate it helps me respond differently. And also, when I think about global programs, it also teaches me of how to educate them differently. So when it comes to education, I also use that the way I educate someone in France, it could be different to the way I handle in any countries, in Asia, in India, for example. So because different people would have different style of learning, and that's what I always use that to, to gage my my my audience. So even within the country or within a company, an engineer versus a salesperson versus a finance person is very different. So the way I explain equity concepts and taxes, an engineer could understand technical terms, but a salesperson would prefer a simple analogy that they can relate to. So how do you tackle that? Know your demographic? So London, for example, has more engineers, so maybe I do it more technical, even Dublin has more salesperson. Then I strategize my education strategy a bit different any company at Google size and scale needs the right partners. 

Chris Dohrmann  18:15

What do you have in mind? Because you said you manage your vendors for plan administrators, and what are the must haves.

Dexter Tang  18:25

So the one thing I always advocate for, for plan administration providers is you have to have a more global mindset, because you you your customers, your clients, are operating globally. What I find these days, or at least historically, is that, especially American providers, no doubt your client's American company, Google's an American company, but we operate in so many countries globally. How do you create a product or improve a product? It has to have a global mindset, not US centric. And I think that's one thing I always want to advocate for, and it's because I'm also a non US participant. So I know the pain, I relate to it, and that's how I continue to advocate for that. So that's one is a global mindset. The second one is really flexibility. I think, in a financial industry, we are so used to, you know, rigidity, and this is how we do it, kind of principles. But I feel providers now need to really find ways to improve their platform, their technology, to really meet their clients needs quickly, very quickly and flexible enough to give me, let's say, for example, customized reports that I need because many different countries requires different things. So it might work for the US doesn't mean it's going to work for France or it doesn't work for China, you know. So I think having that flexibility to your platform. Form again, you start with global mindset. Then you will, you will, then know how to get there, right? So that's the second thing is, how flexible your platform is. And I think the other one is, again, going back to the global mindset, is about thinking of from your participants point of view. You know, I honestly feel, till today, when I sell, if I want to sell a share in my on my broker platform. Oh, my God, the platform is so complex to navigate. I think it's just a historical thing, like years and years is it has been like that, and you see all the new Neo banks, or the new type of banks that that's coming up, they make it so easy, so the participant experience is whole different. Like, like, when I use, I don't know in the US, whether you have this, for example, in in over here, or like, Robin Hood, maybe you can relate to that Robin Hood. Why is Robin Hood so big? Because they know their audience, they have an app that's so easy to use, easy to buy shares, easy to sell shares. And I think you know, providers need to start thinking about that. How can you know your audience and make it easy for them to do all these things without, like navigating and trying, like a maze, to go through the Navigating the account?

Chris Dohrmann  21:20

What are the biggest pain points for big global publics when it comes to running your employee equity program? You know, use as simple as time differences to whatever you decide to bring up.

Dexter Tang  21:31

For me, running a big program globally like that is really appreciating again, the multiple needs of different jurisdictions and local, local needs, you know, country specifics, you Yeah, in other words, you in different countries have their own ask. And when you're running global plan, and especially for an administrative and operations perspective, the more standardized we do it, the better, right? Operations is easier, but there's not necessarily, again, 111, size doesn't fit all. So the challenge is, for me, is, how do you meet local needs as well? Like certain, certain countries probably have a, what they call a qualified plan that will may benefit them, but when you're running a global plan, you can't be running a lot of different local plans either. It just doesn't work that way, right? And you you got to think about equity, you got to think about administrative challenges. So all of these things really is. One of the big, big points is, how do you, firstly, meet those needs, or Secondly, work with those countries to make them understand why their needs cannot be met, and how can you work with them to really influence that decision? I think, to me, that's always the big pain points.

Chris Dohrmann  22:51

And I think finally, I'd be remiss not to bring up perks, and Google has been famous as a pioneer in instituting perks in the workforce and supporting a very culture that embraces the fact that their people, your people, are probably your most important asset.

Dexter Tang  23:09

Yeah, look, we, I'm not gonna lie like you know, as a employee myself, it's hard sometimes to think about what's live outside of it. You know, you know, we are given all these things. We have great perks, benefits, our competitive salary equity. And to me, all these things are given to us with one goal in mind. They want us to focus on making a difference and focusing on our jobs, so that all these small little frictions in our life, like thinking what to eat for lunch doesn't have to be an issue. And I think for me, that that really helps me to focus on my job and really then helping driving value for the company and and that's, again, what I do constantly at work, is trying to think when, how we tie it, tie that message to equity offerings, right? And when you think about equity offerings, it's all about share price, it's about shareholder value. And when a company is successful, you write the success with the company. And to me, that's always been the purpose of an equity plan. It's easier to communicate that when your share price is doing well, it's a little bit harder when it's not doing well. But the lucky thing, I think for us, is that, at least for me, for the past seven years, definitely we've seen a lot of growth so and then you help to then help employees to focus on continuing to create those values so that we can continue to be more successful in the future.

Chris Dohrmann  24:37

So we are almost to the final lap here, and what we do usually at the end of the show is to do a quick fire round. So I'll ask a couple of quick questions, and you can give us first things that come to mind, and you know, we can see if we have some fun with that. So the first question is, what are the top three things you can do to get people engaged in a stock plan fun?

Dexter Tang  25:00

Simple and relatable.

Chris Dohrmann  25:04

I love that you said fun, because people learn by stories, and as soon as they're having fun, they are all in Oh,

Dexter Tang  25:11

I'm I'm big on that, like every time I run education sessions, I challenge my tax advisors. You need to be more fun because you sound like you sound like you don't want anyone to be here.

Chris Dohrmann  25:22

So second, what's the secret of good reporting and measurement, completeness and accuracy? What's the biggest pitfall that stock plan administrators fall into?

Dexter Tang  25:34

Oh, that's tough, underestimating complexity.

Chris Dohrmann  25:40

I think you're right, because I mean, especially when you go back to compliance, what you first read sounds fine, but when you find out that the regulators have written something that you can't produce, that's when the anxiety, you know, levels up.

Dexter Tang  25:55

Yeah, that's one. But the other thing when it comes to that is, where I'm coming from is under the underestimation of complexity is I feel like, for example, if your company just offer one type of plan, let's say RSU, people think, Oh, how hard can RSU be? I think you're underestimating because when I joined after that, like, hey, it is not as easy as you think it is.

Chris Dohrmann  26:18

And finally, can you name the top three rules that you have that have helped you run a plan, well, partner

Dexter Tang  26:25

well, you need great vendors to partner with. You hire well, because you need great team members. And then finally, always have the right tools.

Chris Dohrmann  26:35

Dexter, I want to thank you for your time. You've been so you know, energetic and frank with your answers. I really appreciate it. This was fun, so I do appreciate it. Thanks so much for coming on the show.

Dexter Tang  26:46

No worries. Thanks for having me. 

Chris Dohrmann  27:02

And that brings us to the end of this episode of prosperity at work from J.P. Morgan Workplace Solutions. Thanks for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, we hope you'll review, rate and subscribe to J.P. Morgan Workplace Solutions, Prosperity at Work available wherever you get your podcasts, you can find more insights on equity compensation, financial wellness and more by following us on LinkedIn or over at globalshares.com where you can download our new playbook on equity compensation program communications until next time that's Prosperity at Work, bye.